Bagenalscastlenewry.com, N. Ireland minister admits castle not there. NEWRYABBEY

Most links found & content on this web site connect to first edition historical manuscripts & or publication's showing precise statement's as written. The photo's are all copy right of the author, they should not be used with out permission. All are proof of the real historically recorded annals' of Newryabbey in Co Down N. Ireland. (Unless you know different) All of these book's, map's, leaflets, guides, history book's, religious writing, & copy's of almost 200 year's of Newry & Mourne's memoirs & town guide,s along with associated English edited Newry town guides, leaflets & booklets & abbey supplements are the author's own Library. Important references from medieval Cistercian's records along with period English State papers are included in order to show nothing but the truth in all eventualities. The author was born with in the immediate Newryabbey enclosure & spent part his youth attending the Abbey school & so know's the whole abbey area like the back of his hand. In short he climbed the walls of the Abbey & went where he wasnt supposed to, naturally he discovered some scary truth's while walking through the undercrofts.. He see's the recent errecting of an alleged lost English Castle that uses an abbey chapel building as being in the manner of the preverbal English Cuckoo. He finds this distortion of Newry's history as an affront to his ancient Irish culture, & those other culture's that were nursed with in this foundation of St Patrick.

Ireland is an old country, built on the earliest bones of time, the whole country is a vast archaeological site with millions of recorded & unrecorded features that could be anything from an interesting stone discovered on a hill, to a forgotten ringfort on a hill opposite.. Resonant with local attachment and deep continuities, it has the worlds most ancient historic landscapes that gives our uniqueIrish identity. Newry played a very important role in the ancient times and is recorded by the bards as doing so through out the ages. Newry is a very special place but during the past 50 years,an intensive wrecking and bulldozing of our ancient towns embankments & medieval building that are irreplaceable & the land marks used by our ancestors are all but extinct & while you may be under the illusion that Newry began only 850 years ago you are in for a big supprise. The Newryabbey was once called the college of Newry, the last time this term was used was in 1456 when Infact the Abbey went under a serious rebuilding scheme & like many others In Ireland at this period was refurbished, many of the building survived after the reformation and indeed some still survive today. Newry & Mourne say's theres none?? The worst period of destruction for the Abbey was during the Corrys dynasty, when it is believed that this once very famous Abbey was brought to the edge of extinction,(load of rubbish) by thier English love for such places. But you cant allways believe what you read, especially when it was written to decieve and cover up the likes of the story behind the 33 mutilated body's found. Many of the Abbey building were pulled down,but many were not & this abbey chapelis proof of the pudding.

There is no doubt 's that the buildings of the Cistercian Abbey of Newry were still surviving at the time of Sir Nicholas Bagenal's grant of Newry, the evidence of this is historical and well written about and it is shown below.

Documents survive for 1540-1, a survey of crown lands in Ireland,, being an inquisition into the lands held by the College of Newry where (Alexandria the great who died in 323 BC, stayed) !!

This particular 1540-1549 inquisition document, provides us with the valuable information on the settlement in existence at Newry at this time. I for one after reading this lot refuse to believe one word of them. Anyway !! at the time of the inquisition (some ) the buildings of the original Cistercian abbey were seen to be still standing with out any doubts, the common name of the grouping was " the College". This consisted of a 'Church, its steeple, a cemetery, a chapter- house, a dormitory and hall, two orchards and one garden, containing one acre,all within the precincts of the "college'. Adjoining the claustral buildings were seventy-two messuages and cottages."

Sir Nicholas' had a patent of 1552, this provides the extent of the lands acquired by himself in this same year. This patent not only granted him the lands of the Abbey of Newry and priory at Carlingford, but also granted him the royal manors of Carlingford and Greencastle along with the Lordship of Moume. These latter estates were were obviously taken into his hands just after he was granted the Abbey 1549-50. Also included were lands centred on the townland of Grange in north Armagh which had also belonged to the Abbey of Newry in the medieval period. All of the estates he recieved were to be held by knight's service, meaning that he was no more than a military tenant of the king, (he had his own plans however to change all this!!)

At this period the dwelling place of the Abbot was a tower-house, this being common place through out Ireland, these towers were built as a retreat or defence primiraly for the leading Abbot or Holy man. In many places in Ireland today the towers are known as Bishops Towers, for they became retreats for many a Bishop in the following centuries
( but this is another story!!). Approx 118 of the original Christian Towers of Ireland still exist in various states of repair. You can see here the Origin Of The Towers

Several years ago at the site of the Abbey or as its more commonly called today Mc Cann's Bakery, the substantial remains of a building similar to that depicted on the 1575 map of the town was unearthed.

This is not new news to the town, many small council guides and many local books have related this fact for over 100 years, and they all quite proudly anounce that the Abbey remains are in Mc Canns.

Many history books refer to the same ruins, however they are best refered to in the memorials! these I believe from a book written by Basset and also explained in the Harris Ancient and Present State Of Down 1734.

This Harris snipit of information that by the way is discounted by those that are currently carrying on the survey of this site, I was assured he was not a historian by a leading figure concerned yet many historians knew Harris to be a learned historian.

Yet the Basset book which was a commercial money maker for Bassets for years is seen to be almost a bible on the subject. strange?

It has been suggested that the remains of the tower (amongst other things) thick walls!! found at the bakery is that off perhaps!! a "new " tower, !!perhaps!! built by Bagenal. The fact alone that this is a question and not a statement, should lead everyone to wonder do they know anything about the building or building's as such.

The memorials refering to this tower' blowing up and the thick walls actually refer to the Abbey and not the Castle as Newry and Mourne put it in their wee Bagenal book !!!

On reading the memorials used to build up most of Newry and Mournes back up on this project, one will fing the word Abbey has been omitted and the word Castle put in its place.

Common sense prevailling with what is stated historically & that no one (historian) in Ireland or England has ever mentioned a Bagenal Castle situated In Newry Abbey grounds, these ruins that are there today are undisputedly part of the claustral buildings of the Newry medieval abbey.

It is historical fact that Nicholas Bagenal the first, 1545, submitted a request to England. to build a Castle & In fact to wall the Newrie's somewhat like Derry.

Along with this request he submitted an appeal for a loan so that he could proceed with the task.    All of his requests were refused or as Newry Mourne put it them selves.   In short as you can imagine Nicholas Bagenal like his son Arthur who followed in his footsteps was never quite the flavour of any month In England, never mind what the Irish thought of him.

Newry and Mournes booklet tells the whole story about the house where Bagenal lived they shoot them selves in the foot over and over, if Mr Sidney says Bagenals house was in the country & or high way how is it that our council says now that its in the heart of the church of newryabbey. The so called recently found documents which Newry & Mourne clings to as evidence, cwere known about a long long time ago and were rubbished a long time before I happened along.   The Abbey school news paper of 1935 outlines the same documents & calls them monastic documents & plans, for a building that was built 400 years before Bagenal came to Newry.

Give the historical facts about the supposed unique floor Plans which were supposedly used to build this Castle the fabrication goes beyond belief. Newry and Mourne along with heritage states that there are no plans ln the world to equal those that they found, yet later on in the day they state that a building In Carrick is very similar and guess what !! the Carric building is an Abbey one, lol.   Newry Mourne produced 2 sets of supposedly unique drawing, a top floor and a bottom floor, while this is what would be expected, not only are they borrowed from 2 different buildings, the top floor which has been measured recently by an expert for us, states clearly that the top floor would never sit on the bottom floor because the walls of the top floor are too wide DUH. As well as that little point, the bottom floor plan features a door way which led into the Castle street undercrofts and it has that typical Cistercian & or MONASTIC vaulted roof !!.

There is not one historical document that states any Bagenal ever built a single Castle In Newry. My opinion is that Nicholas Bagenal 1554 definetly restored Newry Castle like the book says. The famous historian Harris was commisioned in 1740ish to write about County Down, in doing so he listed all Castles in the County, and while he mentions Creilys Castle at the top of mill street,& or end of Castle street, (Newrycastle) no bagenal Castle or any other Castle in Castle street is mentioned.

Harris does not mention Bagenal let alone any Bagenal Castle. Its is note worthy here to remember that this book was written only 20 years after the last of the Bagenals died out, & as yet not one address for any member of this family has been located In Newry, strange stuff when we are led to believe by Newry and Mourne that this family was the back bone of this town. On a study of all records in regard to all building that were erected in the town from the time of Nicholas Bagenal right up to the death of the last Bagenal member in 1720, there isnt one building not even a shed that was endorsed by the name. However if you take a wee trip down the road to "Newcastle" you can find bit's of a New Castle where the Bagenals did get thier post delivered to , however when Nicholas arrived in Newry and for many years after this particular building actually belonged to a farmer, It was used for houseing 11 cows, & much like the abbey of Newry it wasnt in the best of nick. . Harris also mentioned theAbbots house & suggests it may have been the home of the Needhams, and he states clearly that it was thier Castle in so many words, by way of an English mans house was his Castle !!! he then says it was an "old building" not in any way did he define it as a real Castle? He also mentioned that the Holy house was lately still standing, that is Mc Canns bakery,& the supposed but fake Castle we have with in our midsts. Where did this so called Bagenal Castle go to In Harrisons day,? (Tell u later) Harris was an outstanding Historian, he was refered to by many in many books and was quoted by the famous Geogahgian 1870, constantly. If Harris omited a Castle it never existed. !!